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	<title>Comments for Reality Rounds</title>
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	<link>http://realityrounds.com</link>
	<description>Get a Second Opinion</description>
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		<title>Comment on When Birth is Not Beautiful. by Amanda K.</title>
		<link>http://realityrounds.com/2010/04/16/when-birth-is-not-beautiful/#comment-5703</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 May 2010 02:04:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realityrounds.com/?p=3519#comment-5703</guid>
		<description>That seems to be a very, very common interpretation, however.  The *explanation* does logically carry over to what Jennifer (and many others - me, from two very different biblical backgrounds) was taught.

The logic, unfortunately, is pretty sound from it.  God cursed Eve with pain during childbirth due to her sin, and falling.  Women today experience intense pain during childbirth . . . because it is God&#039;s curse for being fallen.  It is not a distant leap from there to make it a personal thing, where each woman is punished with pain while receiving the blessing of a child.  =(  Very, very common thought process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That seems to be a very, very common interpretation, however.  The *explanation* does logically carry over to what Jennifer (and many others &#8211; me, from two very different biblical backgrounds) was taught.</p>
<p>The logic, unfortunately, is pretty sound from it.  God cursed Eve with pain during childbirth due to her sin, and falling.  Women today experience intense pain during childbirth . . . because it is God&#8217;s curse for being fallen.  It is not a distant leap from there to make it a personal thing, where each woman is punished with pain while receiving the blessing of a child.  =(  Very, very common thought process.</p>
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		<title>Comment on When Birth is Not Beautiful. by darlene</title>
		<link>http://realityrounds.com/2010/04/16/when-birth-is-not-beautiful/#comment-5700</link>
		<dc:creator>darlene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 03:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realityrounds.com/?p=3519#comment-5700</guid>
		<description>I definitely agree with everyone who has argued that birth isn&#039;t portrayed in the Judeo-Christian scriptures as evil or dirty. I wonder if birth - along with menstruation and yes, perhaps even ejaculation and sex - was not seen so much as being &quot;unclean&quot; (in the sense of being dirty) but more inherently &quot;other&quot;.  I&#039;m thinking of Rudolph Otto&#039;s work, and the idea of sacred things being &quot;wholly other&quot;.  Not clean, not dirty, but indefinable and just...something else, something different.  Other.  I can&#039;t think of a time when I have ever felt more &quot;other&quot;, more liminal than I did while birthing.  From a purely religious perspective, rite and ritual in the Western traditions require the supplicant to focus on the task at hand, but one who is in a state of &quot;otherness&quot; would be in an unfit state to do so.

But none of this should be read as in any way apologetic, because the paragraph above is written from a purely academic perspective.  It doesn&#039;t take into account the many ways in which women are, routinely and systemically, blamed for flaws in the birth process or experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely agree with everyone who has argued that birth isn&#8217;t portrayed in the Judeo-Christian scriptures as evil or dirty. I wonder if birth &#8211; along with menstruation and yes, perhaps even ejaculation and sex &#8211; was not seen so much as being &#8220;unclean&#8221; (in the sense of being dirty) but more inherently &#8220;other&#8221;.  I&#8217;m thinking of Rudolph Otto&#8217;s work, and the idea of sacred things being &#8220;wholly other&#8221;.  Not clean, not dirty, but indefinable and just&#8230;something else, something different.  Other.  I can&#8217;t think of a time when I have ever felt more &#8220;other&#8221;, more liminal than I did while birthing.  From a purely religious perspective, rite and ritual in the Western traditions require the supplicant to focus on the task at hand, but one who is in a state of &#8220;otherness&#8221; would be in an unfit state to do so.</p>
<p>But none of this should be read as in any way apologetic, because the paragraph above is written from a purely academic perspective.  It doesn&#8217;t take into account the many ways in which women are, routinely and systemically, blamed for flaws in the birth process or experience.</p>
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		<title>Comment on When Birth is Not Beautiful. by pinky</title>
		<link>http://realityrounds.com/2010/04/16/when-birth-is-not-beautiful/#comment-5699</link>
		<dc:creator>pinky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 20:42:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realityrounds.com/?p=3519#comment-5699</guid>
		<description>no win situation. Sad really, I agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no win situation. Sad really, I agree.</p>
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		<title>Comment on When Birth is Not Beautiful. by pinky</title>
		<link>http://realityrounds.com/2010/04/16/when-birth-is-not-beautiful/#comment-5698</link>
		<dc:creator>pinky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 20:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realityrounds.com/?p=3519#comment-5698</guid>
		<description>Interesting thoughts. I think you may be correct in blaming women. There is a phenomenon sited in psychology called blaming the victim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting thoughts. I think you may be correct in blaming women. There is a phenomenon sited in psychology called blaming the victim.</p>
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		<title>Comment on When Birth is Not Beautiful. by Labor Nurse, CNM</title>
		<link>http://realityrounds.com/2010/04/16/when-birth-is-not-beautiful/#comment-5681</link>
		<dc:creator>Labor Nurse, CNM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Apr 2010 01:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realityrounds.com/?p=3519#comment-5681</guid>
		<description>Emily, my point exactly!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emily, my point exactly!!!</p>
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		<title>Comment on When Birth is Not Beautiful. by faerylandmom</title>
		<link>http://realityrounds.com/2010/04/16/when-birth-is-not-beautiful/#comment-5675</link>
		<dc:creator>faerylandmom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 19:47:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realityrounds.com/?p=3519#comment-5675</guid>
		<description>I have to say, that after reading all these comments, I was pleasantly surprised at the lack of defensiveness. What a testament to the civility of each of you. 

I have nothing to add, other than that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say, that after reading all these comments, I was pleasantly surprised at the lack of defensiveness. What a testament to the civility of each of you. </p>
<p>I have nothing to add, other than that.</p>
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		<title>Comment on When Birth is Not Beautiful. by Karen</title>
		<link>http://realityrounds.com/2010/04/16/when-birth-is-not-beautiful/#comment-5674</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 19:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realityrounds.com/?p=3519#comment-5674</guid>
		<description>I practice very devoted Christianity with absolute literal interpretation of the Bible, and never once have I viewed the Bible&#039;s treatment of childbearing as evil.  And the idea that childbirth somehow is painful because of Eve&#039;s transgression is IMO incorrect.  Many versions of the Bible read, &quot;sorrow&quot;, NOT pain.  &quot;Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.&quot;  Genesis 3:16  Eve was in sorrow because her idiocy got her and her husband kicked out of the garden of Eden.  It was not that childbirth was suddenly meant to be agonizing, and this pain somehow became genetically transmissible.  Just think about the other things we do during the day that occasionally hurt as a result of tissues stretching - exercise, defecation, and even sex.  Yet we don&#039;t regard these sensations as &quot;pain&quot; per se.  So why all the fuss?  I don&#039;t get it.

I believe that if a supposedly religious leader is teaching this &quot;childbirth is meant to hurt to punish women for Eve&#039;s sin&quot; crap, they are false teachers and should be regarded appropriately.  Just because some mysogynist spouts crap from a pulpit somewhere doesn&#039;t mean that God feels the same way toward women.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I practice very devoted Christianity with absolute literal interpretation of the Bible, and never once have I viewed the Bible&#8217;s treatment of childbearing as evil.  And the idea that childbirth somehow is painful because of Eve&#8217;s transgression is IMO incorrect.  Many versions of the Bible read, &#8220;sorrow&#8221;, NOT pain.  &#8220;Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.&#8221;  Genesis 3:16  Eve was in sorrow because her idiocy got her and her husband kicked out of the garden of Eden.  It was not that childbirth was suddenly meant to be agonizing, and this pain somehow became genetically transmissible.  Just think about the other things we do during the day that occasionally hurt as a result of tissues stretching &#8211; exercise, defecation, and even sex.  Yet we don&#8217;t regard these sensations as &#8220;pain&#8221; per se.  So why all the fuss?  I don&#8217;t get it.</p>
<p>I believe that if a supposedly religious leader is teaching this &#8220;childbirth is meant to hurt to punish women for Eve&#8217;s sin&#8221; crap, they are false teachers and should be regarded appropriately.  Just because some mysogynist spouts crap from a pulpit somewhere doesn&#8217;t mean that God feels the same way toward women.</p>
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		<title>Comment on When Birth is Not Beautiful. by Emily</title>
		<link>http://realityrounds.com/2010/04/16/when-birth-is-not-beautiful/#comment-5666</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 03:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realityrounds.com/?p=3519#comment-5666</guid>
		<description>Wow. That is SOME LANGUAGE. Sheesh. Has anyone brought to their attention just how ridiculous that sounds? Because language shapes perception in a big way, and you just can&#039;t talk like that without internalizing those ideas. &quot;SHE just wasn&#039;t changing her cervix?&quot; Oh fergodssakes. I&#039;m sure if she could change her cervix there would be a lot less for OB/GYNs to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. That is SOME LANGUAGE. Sheesh. Has anyone brought to their attention just how ridiculous that sounds? Because language shapes perception in a big way, and you just can&#8217;t talk like that without internalizing those ideas. &#8220;SHE just wasn&#8217;t changing her cervix?&#8221; Oh fergodssakes. I&#8217;m sure if she could change her cervix there would be a lot less for OB/GYNs to do.</p>
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		<title>Comment on When Birth is Not Beautiful. by Emily</title>
		<link>http://realityrounds.com/2010/04/16/when-birth-is-not-beautiful/#comment-5665</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 03:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realityrounds.com/?p=3519#comment-5665</guid>
		<description>I think that complacency about birth is a wonderful luxury. If women have the information that they need to make an informed decision and they choose a medicated and pampered birth, I absolutely fail to see anything wrong with that. 

As long as procedures or medications are not significantly endangering women without their knowledge or putting undue strain on healthcare resources, women should have the right to freely choose the level of intervention with which they feel most comfortable. This means that some may choose unmedicated, transformative, uncomplicated birth, and others will &quot;not care&quot; and concentrate only on having healthy babies and suffering as little as possible in the process. It really isn&#039;t anyone&#039;s place to judge the way a woman chooses to give birth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that complacency about birth is a wonderful luxury. If women have the information that they need to make an informed decision and they choose a medicated and pampered birth, I absolutely fail to see anything wrong with that. </p>
<p>As long as procedures or medications are not significantly endangering women without their knowledge or putting undue strain on healthcare resources, women should have the right to freely choose the level of intervention with which they feel most comfortable. This means that some may choose unmedicated, transformative, uncomplicated birth, and others will &#8220;not care&#8221; and concentrate only on having healthy babies and suffering as little as possible in the process. It really isn&#8217;t anyone&#8217;s place to judge the way a woman chooses to give birth.</p>
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		<title>Comment on When Birth is Not Beautiful. by Emily</title>
		<link>http://realityrounds.com/2010/04/16/when-birth-is-not-beautiful/#comment-5664</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 03:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realityrounds.com/?p=3519#comment-5664</guid>
		<description>Is your screen name a reference to Saanen goats? Do you happen to own goats?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is your screen name a reference to Saanen goats? Do you happen to own goats?</p>
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