Are Nurses Cowards? or What Does It Mean for a Nurse to “Advocate” for a Patient?” Post #1
Posted by realityrounds on July 10, 2009
The more I read the more I realize that patients are pissed off about the state of health care in the United States. It is universal across ages and specialties. It is not just OB, or Women’s and Children’s Health, or personal health that I am talking about. It is a pandemic feeling of angst and violation, and mistrust, and dare I say it, hatred for the state of health care. Terms such as “criminal” and “rape”, and “abuse” are floating around the internet regarding how some American human beings are feeling about how the health care industry has treated them. Here is a quote from a comment left on the website Stand and Deliver. The commentor is specifically talking about nursing advocacy in regards to labor and delivery, but you can substitute her comment for any medical specialty:
Gloria J. Lemay said…
When nurses REALLY begin to advocate for the patient, things will change fast. We won’t see any more Cytotec or other prostaglandins used for one thing. We won’t see any more 41 week inductions for low amniotic fluid for another. Nurses know darn well that these things are harmful and go along with them because “I’ll lose my job”, “I want to pick my battles”, “It’s our protocol” or other rationalizations. Every time they go along with a harmful procedure that a doctor orders, they are part of the problem. Don’t even get me started on the nurses role in infant circumcision.
Is Gloria right? Are nurses just lemmings going along with the medical flow, saying “yes, doctor’ to this and “yes, doctor” to that? Are nurses cowards?………
I am going to leave this open for response. I will follow with a more scholarly response on what it REALLY means for a nurse to advocate for a patient in post #2.
RR
lpnmon said
I don’t thing that things (even the things mentioned by the commenter) are quite that black and white. Prostaglandins aren’t inherently dangerous. Yes, they can be, but not always. I think that it takes a very confident nurse to question a doctor’s orders. I think it is our job to do this if we think an order is dangerous. And I think that the doctors have GOT to be willing to educate us on why the order is NOT dangerous if that is the case. “Because that’s the order I want” is not good enough, and they need to know that. Yes, they are docs and went to med school. But they are also human and can make mistakes.
So, to answer the actual question that you asked, some nurses are cowards. Some do just go with the flow. The good ones don’t. The good ones think about the orders and seek out more education when what they’re reading doesn’t make sense.
-lpnmon
pinky said
I agree. Sometimes a 41 weeker with low fluid is ok, sometimes they need delivery. I need more information to make a decision. A 41 weeker with fluid of 6.1 is not low. ANd if they have a beautifully reactive tracing, why not send them home. But here is the other key: what does the patient want to do? I advocate for what they want to do when it is not unreasonable. By unreasonable I mean wanting things that are against ACOG and AWHONN.
Yes, Doctors have a duty to convince me that it is safe. IF not I go up the chain of command. That is standard of care for all nurses in my area.
Gloria Lemay said
One of the really fascinating projects in obstetrics is the “First Births Project” from B.C. Women’s Hospital. The entire staff undertook a brainstorming session and came up with 4 things the hosp had control over that might lower the c-section rate:
1. inducing too early
2. continuous EFM
3. admitting too soon
4. giving epidurals before 8 cm
When they stopped doing those 4 things the c section rate went way down. Once the project finished, they went right back to their old tricks and the rate went up again. Study was pub’d. Nothing changed. So, those nurses saw first hand the effect and still didn’t keep the changes in place. I don’t understand it.
pinky said
Gloria you have a great point in the first 3 interventions.
On number 4, I cannot refuse a primip of an epidural if she wants one. She is going to be at it for a while. Also I am advocating for her safety, comfort and wishes. If she is safe and wishes an epidural, I want to make her comfortable.
The other 3 points I totally agree with. However, if the patient wants these things it is hard to advocate for what I believe in opposed to what the Doc and the patient both want. I am outnumbered. I also don’t have a leg to stand on if the patient is sitting there saying, “Yes I want these things. Yes I understand the induction could take 3 days and I am ok with that.”
Alli said
Will she necessarily be at it for awhile? Not all primips have long labours, and with support she can cope. Have you exhausted all other suggestions for her first?
Hospital Doula programs would be so much more effective, both in cost and outcome than simple saying. ” you want an epidural, ok I will call for it”
Do you really do informed consent with the Epidural, true real informed consent? With ALL the risks outlined, in clear black and white english? Do you explain all the risks short and long term? The cascade of interventions? Do you really explain how an epidural is done and take the time to answer all questions?
pinky said
Ali, where I practice there are not a lot of risks involved. Perhaps it is different some other places. Who are you and what makes you the expert? Are you an L&D nurse? Are you an anesthesiologist or a Doctor? Are you a midwife?
If a woman wants a ncb I advocate for that. If she wants and epidural. I try to give her one when it is most beneficial to her and the process of labor. In my place of work we give a lot of information. I don’t think epidurals are hurting folks the way WE are administering them. I cannot give information for the rest of the universe.
ANd yes Ali, she will most likely be at it for a while if she is 2 cm and screaming at me after I put her in the tub and walked with her and did all the labor support things I know how to do. It is her choice. It is her labor. Not mine, not yours.
atyourcervix said
No epidural before 8 cm? Come on!!! While I may be a huge proponent of natural/unmedicated childbirth, many women that I care for are wanting an epidural for their labor. To make them wait until 8cm to get the epidural? That’s just mean. I totally agree with your first three points though.
M'Lynn said
I seriously have no words for #4. I was denied an epidural til 7cm. It sucked tremendously to be either mocked or ignored by my nurse (I say AS a nurse.)
realityrounds said
Gloria,
Thanks so much for taking the time to comment. Nurses do need to advocate for the patients they care for and practice in an evidence based manner, while keeping the patients wishes in mind. Nurses can’t admit, prescribe, or decide if a patient receives EFM. We can certainly communicate with the MD or CNM to lay out the best plan of care for the patient, with the patients input.
mrsculpepper said
re epidural at 8cm: not much point in an epidural after 8cm is there? every thing else mentioned, absolutely though. (not that i think epidurals are marvelous, i don’t, but if someone really wants one i think 8cm is a wee bit late)
Valerie said
Reading about the study conducted to reduce C-Sections and then not sticking to the “published” results to maintain safe practice is very demoralizing to me. I am a nurse librarian at a nursing college and we rant on about evidence based practice. If the evidence says 1. avoid inducing, 2. avoid continuous EFM, 3. postponing admission and 4. avoid an epidural to improve patient outcomes, why stop doing those things. Could you provide me with the citation? This is an excellent example of how nurses SHOULD be using the nursing literature to leverage power for their practice and their patients. If you know the evidence, then do not back down and stick to your guns to do what is right!!!
pinky said
There have been some studies published that state a woman can have an early epidural and it will not increase their chance of C-section.
Here are the studies:
Ohel G, Gonene R, Vaida S, Barack S, Early vs late inititation of epid. AMJ Obstet Gynecol 2006 Mar, 194 (3) 600-5 pmid 16522386
Wong, CA etal N ENGL J. Med 2005 Feb 17:352(7) 655-65 pmid 15716559
There are also 2 studies I know of published in Anesthesiology 1994.
When I read the studies I noticed what appeared to me as some miscommunication of what the study says and what folks have been thinking the study says. Long thick and closed is still not a good time for an epidural according to these studies. But if you are changing your cervix, then placing an epidural appears to be OK.
pinky said
I love this post. I agree that we have to think of all hospital patients. But I also think we have made major strides in this area. When I had my surgery at world renoun hospital, I had very little expectations because I worked their years ago and thought, “Pinky you are on your own.” But they have really improved. They gave me a PA to call before my surgery to answer any questions. I was on a first name basis with this guy. He was wonderful. It made the experience much better. Much more personal.
In OB I think we have some major work to do. But I think the work is being done. I have noticed Docs discussing their low C-section rate and wanting to keep it that way.
Also we teach nurses how to advocate. I know this since I teach nursing students in OB. I teach them how to interact successfully. I teach them about the chain of command.
However, some hospitals are structured in such a manner that the nurses do not refuse orders they do not agree with. I worked for such a hospital. I was like a fish out of water. So I stayed for a few years hoping it would get better and getting my a$$ chewed out so much that now I am anatomically incorrect (I have 2 permanent a$$holes). It never got better so I had to leave. So Gloria does have a good point in that some nursing cultures do not advocate as much. And they should.
Kimberly said
I think as a nurse your perspective is completely different than the mothers coming in to the hospital. These women trust you. They depend on you. They aren’t experts in childbirth, they don’t have training on what is harmful and what is not, they usually don’t even know that most babies don’t arrive on their due date!
These women cannot advocate for themselves, because 1: they don’t know enough, 2: they are in pain-they can’t think as clearly as those not in pain 3: they are in a powerless position. So many women I know tell me they didn’t want this or that done to them, but they had no choice, in other words they felt powerless to make a choice.
Then after the birth any negative feelings about the experience are stiffled by comments like ‘you should be glad you have a healthy baby’.
If the nurses won’t stand up for them who will? Childbirth shouldn’t be a fight, it’s already hard enough as is! I sometimes feel like women going into the hospital are like lambs before the slaughter, innocent and naive, they have no idea what is in store for them-how on earth could they possibly prepare to defend against the sorts of things that happen in hospitals?
They have no idea what they are walking into, the absolute loss of power once you enter the hospital-these things are not told to women, and even when they are experienced those experiences are nullified by the medical establishment and our culture. If we want things to change nurses will absolutely have to stand up for their patients. It cannot just be education for pregnant women, they need advocates as well!
realityrounds said
Great response Kimberly. I get what your saying. I was also a patient in labor twice, and had to argue with a resident against breaking my bag and starting pitocin, while I was in pain and contracting away. My nurse did and said nothing about it. I did feel alone, and I can empathize with what women go through in labor.
As far as comments like ‘you should be glad you have a healthy baby’, they are not helpful, but I do believe it is a genuine attempt for some nurses to try and make the mom feel better. Sort of like when people say “you can always have another baby” if you had a miscarriage or loss. NOT helpful! Validating their perceptions and feelings would be a better idea.
I do not think the onus of fighting for the birth you want should only be left up to the patient. Nurses do need to step up and advocate for the women who enter the hospital to give birth. For the majority of women, birthing a baby is the first experience of being a patient in a hospital (it was for me). We need to give them back some control, and nurses are key in doing that.
I will post more on this topic later. Thanks again for the great comment.
pinky said
Kimberly,
I completely agree with you. Patients should not be expected to be experts on childbirth. Nurses definitely should advocate for their patients. Patients are not in a position to advocate for themselves. The nurse should definitely be on their side. Sometimes that makes nurses unpopular with the Doctor. I can live with that. The Doctor usually gets over it pretty quick.
When I am in a position that I feel I need to advocate for my patient, I often tell the Doctor when we are away from the patient, that they would rather clear this up now than have the administration get involved. ANd the administration does get involved with patient complaints. So I make it sound like I am doing the Doc a favor. And in some ways I am.
scorpiosity said
When I had my first child, I had no idea what to expect and trusted the nurses to do what was right. My doctor wanted to send me home to labor (I was only 1 cm and not in a good pattern) but the nurse convinced him to augment and let me deliver that day since it was the doc’s surgery day and he was in the hospital anyway. I wound up with a broken bag of waters, an epidural, late decels, O2 via facemask, and uterine atony. I didn’t get to bond with my newborn during the first few hours because she needed closer monitoring for low sats and I had a bad reaction to the epidural. When I went back to school to become a registered nurse, I worked on the same unit as a nurse extern. I saw just how much the OB nurses in my area are willing to Pit to D (either distress or delivery) and will follow the OB’s instructions without question. I’ve also seen them mock the *Earth Mothers* who come in at 8cm refusing anesthesia or who have labored in the tub all night and no one knows when the waters actually broke. Now that I am 34w2d with #2, I want a different choice – but these are limited in my area and in my state. The best I can hope for is to be one of those who is mocked at the nurses station for laboring at home because I now know better. Nurses should be the staunchest advocates for patients, especially laboring women who are vulnerable and trusting, but there are very few boat rockers here.
And don’t get me started on the nursery/stork nurses who steal the babies practically before the cords are cut to start assessments without allowing for any bonding time.
realityrounds said
Scorpiosity,
Stories like yours piss me off, and I want to apologize for the shit nurses that are out there. Part of the problem is the culture of the hospital you deliver in. Where I work we encourage moms to labor at home. I tell families during the birthing tours to stay at home as long as they can. This is the place they will be the most comfortable and free. It makes absolutely no sense that your nurse convinced you to stay at the hospital when you were not in labor (and you were not in labor). We also do not separate moms and babies unless the infant requires intensive care. We do not even have a normal newborn nursery, so rooming-in is the only option. I do not get nurses who would mock a mom for laboring at home. Ugh. I also teach all the nurses how to recover a newborn on mom’s chest. It is so easy. It is less work for the nurse.
I have no doubt your personal experience has made you a better nurse. Change can happen. My hospital does it, not perfectly, but well. Please let me know how your birth experience is for your current pregnancy, or contact me with any questions.
All the best.
RR
pinky said
I agree with you. What I don’t understand is why the nurses would want you to stay in the hospital. We are forever encouraging folks to go home and labor.
Mocking NCB at the nurses station is very unprofessional. Also why would they want to put an epidural in a woman who is 8cm? They are making more work for themselves. The best cure for labor pain is delivery! It is so much more work to insert the epidural than just hang out in the woman’s room and dop tone her.
Jill said
Fascinating post and comments, RR. I shall stumble it and tweet it.
Silver said
I’ve had 3 babies in the hospital. My first birth, as it is for most women, was a real eye-opener. I thought I knew what to expect, but wasn’t nearly prepared enough.
I got there and was belittled and patronized. Of course my water didn’t break, and yes it is possible to pee in a 3ft radius. No those weren’t contractions I was feeling – because the external monitor didn’t pick it up. I must be imagining it, and oh yeah it’s gonna get a whooooooolllllle lot worse – want your epidural now? Birth ended up with an episiotomy I was screaming NO to, and post-partum was neglect all day, and visits every 2 hours at night to check vitals because the day shift hadn’t gotten them and they needed them on record. Sorry, you weren’t trying to sleep were you? It’s rather amazing in hindsight, that I ended up delivering vaginally at all.
My 2nd was better, in that I was more persistent at telling everyone no, but upon reaching 10cm and not feeling the urge to push, I was threatened with pitocin, and forcepts.
My 3rd was a homebirth – what an amazing difference, peace and respect. Not a single fight or need to defend myself. I’d decided then that I’d never go back to a hospital to birth again.
But my 4th was a homebirth transfer turned c/s. If I thought the care I’d received with my first was sub par it was nirvana in comparison to being a home birth transfer. Pariah on the maternity floor, stupid for daring to take such risks with her baby’s life. I could have turned green and sprouted another set of arms and would probably have been treated a bit better.
I’d like to say maybe these were isolated events, but each of my hospital births took place in different hospitals, even in different states. I can’t complain about the OBs much – they only showed up for the final act – but the nurses showed a complete lack of compassion in every case. In my first and 4th births they were nothing more than drug pushing bullies. With my 2nd birth I think I lucked out in that there were easier patients to deal with on the floor that day, so they left me alone, for the most part.
I’ve been to the hospital for other reasons than birth, and have received far superior care and advocacy from other nurses. I know they exist, but they seem to be a rare breed in the maternity ward.
Maddy Oden said
I agree with Gloria. I am a doula and do hospital, birth center and home births.
The L/D nurses know so much MORE then they are “allowed” to do, however, IF they refused to do certain procedures that they know can be seriously and sometimes permanently harmful to the baby and or mom, like using cytotec to induce labor…… they could be a large part of saving a life. I had a client recently, who wanted a natural birth. the labor did not proceed as a classic text book labor. She went into the hospital without ever calling me, had a monitor put on and was told in an hour that they were doing a section. the baby was not moving as much as they wanted it to. they gave her sugar water to make the baby move around, and in 20 min.deceided it wasn’t working. After the section they said ” we didn’t have to do the section, we did it as a precaution.”….. that didn’t have to happen… and the nurses knew it.
Gloria Lemay said
I remember when I first started doing birth coaching in hospital 30 years ago. At that time, if you got your dr. to agree to something in the office, then, we could say to the nurses “Well, the dr. agreed to that.” and they would acquiesce. I remember the first time a nurse said to me “Well, I won’t do that. It’s against my ethics as a nurse and if you don’t like it, you can talk to my nurse manager—she’ll back me up!” That was a breakthrough moment for nurses. It made it difficult for me to manipulate them but I was proud of them for finally growing a spine and for backing each other up.
Then, another memorable moment. The doctors (mostly male) would come in to the labour room, wash their hands and then stand and wait expectantly while the nurses opened a package of sterile gloves for them and spread the paper package and lining reverentially on the end of the bed. A good nurse would always remember what size each doctor wore. One night, the doctor said to the nurse, who seemed to be oblivious to his needs, “Nurse, I need a size 8″. She replied “They’re in the bottom drawer.” I’ll never forget the hurt, confused look on his face. The ridiculous ritual had ended in that hospital. Another revolutionary moment in nursing as far as I was concerned!
That’s why I have a dream of a major revolution in nursing. Nurses really standing up (and, yes, risking their jobs), joining forces with each other and refusing to keep the b.s. going. All this nonsense about the dr “delivering” the baby–even the cleaning person can catch a baby that’s being born spontaneously. All the butt covering. All the put downs of women and their partners. All the persecution of midwives and their clients coming in from homebirths (the police are called any time I show my face in a hospital, nice).
Just as those major shifts around obeying the dr and opening gloves have happened in the past, I think there’s a huge possibility of nurses having work they can be proud of when they realize how much power they could have to really enhance the formation of new families.
Laureen said
I was a homebirth transfer. Treated abominally. Except there was one nurse, Nurse N, who “forgot” to hook up the pit. I’ve seen my records; they were trying to dump an insane (dare I say, irresponsible) amount of pit into me, and none of them looked at me long enough to figure out why I wasn’t reacting to it; because Nurse N had quietly wrapped the tube around the IV pole and allowed it to drip onto the floor.
I will bless her every freaking day of my life. She is also the only person who came to visit me after my son was born, and congratulate me. Not even the EvilMedWives did that.
And then there was the other nurse… not sure of her name because she didn’t have a tag. She’s the evil woman who would not talk to me in recovery, would not allow anyone in the room with me, and basically was perfectly OK to let me lay there and convulse and not tell me why until my blood pressure went back up. That was the most alone I’ve ever been in my life; newly not pregnant, my body doing something I didn’t understand, and she just stood there reading the monitors. I don’t have enough terms of opprobrium to cover her.
Two different patient care philosophies, same floor, same unit. And such completely different impacts on my life.
realityrounds said
Laureen,
What a horrible experience. Nurses like the one you had, give us all a bad name. Read my post on the Silent Nurse. Not speaking up for your patient’s rights is the worst thing you could do. I am trying to analyze why nurses would be so hostile to a homebirth transfer. I do not see many wear I work, but I have in other hospitals. I am going to do some research on this.
Thanks for sharing your story.
pinky said
Yes, some research would be good. Let us know what you find out.
Toni said
I had 4 of my children in the hospital. Two different hospitals, actually. Like Laureen above, I had some nurses that I was so very grateful for, and others who should never have gone into the profession. One of those bad ones had the job of coming to give me pain injections after my cesarean (first birth). She never said a word, acted like I was imposing on her, and then would jab the needle into my thigh. This was in 1991, long before they started doing the patient-controlled pain relief. During my first labor, the nurses kept shushing me because I “was scaring the other patients.” They were so happy when they coerced us into an epidural (with the help of the CNM). When the OB decided we *needed* to do the c/sec, I was left ALONE in the OR for quite awhile without anyone with me. If I hadn’t been strapped down with my legs tied together I may have been able to birth on my own… the contractions certainly didn’t stop and the epidural had worn off. The nurses finally filed back in with the anesthesiologist. One nurse in particular stood out as a beacon for me. She was my nurse the night my 4th was born. She was not afraid to come in during my postpartum and visit with me. I have always found postpartum in the hospital to be rather lonely, and she made a real difference.
When my husband went in for heart surgery a few years ago, we had the most wonderful nurses in the cardiac recovery dept. They were open, warm and caring. They weren’t afraid to spend time talking to the patients. The ward was always full, yet they had the time to make every patient feel that they were cared for.
realityrounds said
Hi Toni,
Again, I am going to repeat that being silent as a nurse is the worst thing to do. Ugh! It really pisses me off. In my experience the L&D nurses have always received high praise from patients (according to our patient satisfaction surveys, and letters etc), and the post partum nurses generate a lot of complaints (sorry, but true).
Having had a c/sec myself, I can not imagine being alone in the OR, and I have been to the OR many, many times as a nurse. That is just insane.
Di said
In all of these posts, no one has taken into consideration how the baby would like to be born, the effects of these drugs and abuse to the women affect how the baby will trust how he/she will be treated once born.
How many labours have been stalled and arrested because oxytocin – the shy hormone – has not been honored? Michel Odent in The Functions of the Orgasms states that observation, cold environments and fear affect oxytocin negatively. What happens when a mum in labour arrives at hospital? They are poked, proded, put in a cold room and made to feel like something is wrong with her innate ability to birth withour peril or pain. Its what we see on TV, read in magazines and what women bond over – the worst horror birth story they can share.
The nurses here barge into a room and ask mothers ‘How are the PAINS?’ Not every woman feels her labour as painful. Why would you put that out there to change her perception of what she is feeling? When I talk at inservice meetings, I always request the nurses to ask what the mum is feeling – not to predispose her to feel pain.
As a doula, I teach the dad’s how to advocate for the mums. I honestly feel that the dad’s set the pace of the birth. The mum just needs to show up and birth. The dad has to run interference with the medical staff, discover what interventions are truly necessary by asking questions. I am not anti intervention, only when they are used routinely.
When parents educate themselves to all their options as to what would be the best birth choices for themselves and their babys, when parents become advocates for themselves, when parents demand changes, and choose care providers that will support them in their choices then the other care providers will have to change their ways.
We don’t have midwives here, only hospital trained nurses. They are advocates for the doctors and hospital protocols. They cannot remain employed by questioning the proctocols. It must be the parents that take responsibility for the birth of their baby. If parents don’t edcuate themselves, then they must accept the responsibility for what happens to them. I am not sure it is the nurse’s responsiblity to be an advocate for the parents. They are employed by the hospital. What is the hospitals stance on the nurse’s role?
realityrounds said
Hi Di,
Thanks for commenting. I was caught up reading your site for a long time. Do they need any NICU nurses in Singapore
In the US the nurse is employed by the hospital, but we are an independent profession, governed by other nurses. We can most definitely advocate for our patients. We can not only question protocols, we have a strong say in developing them. For example, I write all the policy and procedures for newborn and special care nursery care. If a nurse is going to question a standard protocol, she needs to back it up with some evidenced based practice.
Being a neonatal clinical nurse specialist, I love your take on how a baby would want to be brought into the world. Developmental care of the newborn is one of my passions, and I am a firm believer, yes advocate, in keeping baby with mom, skin to skin, and early breastfeeding. I have oodles of research to back it up, but really, isn’t it just common sense.
deliveryqueen said
I worked as a Labor and Delivery nurse for 17 years. I loved taking care of the patients but I hated the paperwork. I would have to say that I have gotten in trouble a few times for keeping patients off the EFM monitor too long. I remember always saying it’s a labor and delivery policy that you have to be on the monitor. Sometimes I would call the patient’s doctor to get an order change. When it came down to it, my patient’s comfort was the priority. I would get in trouble so much for being late charting. It’s hard to chart when the patient is holding your hand. At the end of this month I will step into a new role of being a labor doula. At that point I can really practice on what I know best…. Supporting a mother’s decisions in labor. Women need to empower themselves in childbirth and realize that they have a voice in what is being done to their bodies.
realityrounds said
Delivery Queen,
I hear over and over again from L&D nurses that the charting is the worst. It is all defensive medicine/nursing. I sometimes wish they could just video tape what we do so we could put the pen down and concentrate on the patient.
Congrats on the doula role. Keep me posted on how it is different from being an L&D nurse.
Thanks!
Gloria Lemay said
<>
RealityRounds, do you mind if I ask you what your circumcision rate is in your unit? Do you advocate for keeping boys intact?
If you need any resources for quality teaching brochures, I’d be glad to direct you. Gloria Lemay
realityrounds said
Gloria,
I would never say no to more resources. Do you have a contact email?
Gloria Lemay said
birth(at)uniserve.com
pinky said
Devils advocate here. I had my boy circ’d I didn’t want to but my husband college roommate is a urologist and told me “there are some things your boy will not get it circ’d” So I circ’d him. He does not appear in any distress.
I come from Irish people. We don’t circ. Too many boy babies, it would be too much work! But making folks feel like lepers for circing their boys is not helpful. Many Jewish folks have it in their religion. It is very important to some patients to circ the boy. We do now give them anestheitic which was not the case 10 years ago.
It comes down to choice. I cannot disrespect the opinions of my patients especially when the Doc comes in and gives them the cost benefit analysis. And yes they do tell patients that it may not work or that infection could cause problems even death but that is exceedingly unlikely.
Foreskin? No foreskin? I have lived in 2 houses with men of each category. It does not seem to matter. And when my Son baths with my Nephews who are not circ’d that is not the topic of discussion. Really it just isn’t as important as some make it out.
My Brother is not Circ’s. Played football all through high school and college. No problem in the locker room!
Gloria Lemay said
Saying that it doesn’t matter either way if a man is missing his foreskin is simply not accurate. I was woefully uninformed about the function of the prepuce until I viewed a film for medical students called “The Prepuce”. You can see it for free at the website of Doctors Opposing Circumcision
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/video/prepuce.html